The Matrix Fans 2007 forums

[CaptPostMod]

Okay, here's a new one. We all know that the Matrix borrows from many different religious traditions and theological/philosophical schools of thought. But what religion/philosophy do the Matrix films align with the closest?

Is it Buddhism? Hinduism? Integralism? Christianity? General Semantics? Etc.?

I'll give my answer in awhile, but I thought to get the ball rolling I'd see what other people think.

[14515]

I think that M1 was more of Christianity..and Reloaded and Revoltions were a mixture of Buddhism and Hinduism... 60% Buddhism 30% Hinduism and the rest was....well a bit of this and a bit of that.

[Feral_Boy]

I'll give my answer in awhile, but I thought to get the ball rolling I'd see what other people think.

Heh heh...I know what you're gonna say.

[CaptPostMod]

Heh heh...I know what you're gonna say.

Do ya' now? And what would that be?

[Feral_Boy]

Heh heh...I know what you're gonna say.

Do ya' now? And what would that be?

Let's just say it has something to do with Tom Cruise and John Travolta. Oh yeah, and Chef from South Park.

[CaptPostMod]

Maybe. Maybe not

[vieome]

I think that the religion that anyone will align the matrix closest to is one they themselves have in the course of their lifes being preprogrammed into. I>E if you are from a catholic background yu will probably believe it to be christian.
But I think the matrix is about introducing a whole new religion where a man becomes a god.

[tozy]

But I think the matrix is about introducing a whole new religion where a man becomes a god.

In what way? (no disagreement, just trying to understand how you mean it...)

[CaptPostMod]

I think that the religion that anyone will align the matrix closest to is one they themselves have in the course of their lifes being preprogrammed into. I>E if you are from a catholic background yu will probably believe it to be christian.
But I think the matrix is about introducing a whole new religion where a man becomes a god.

That's an awesome post, vieome. And I could definitely see some truth to that. That Matrix is a mirror theologically that will reflect what you already know to be there, as well as expand with some good old "man becomes God" mystic ideas.

[vieome]

But I think the matrix is about introducing a whole new religion where a man becomes a god.

In what way? (no disagreement, just trying to understand how you mean it...)

As we are all aware they are many reflections through out the matrix
of the many different religions. It is my personal opinion that the
driving question drives us not because it reflects religions of the
past but because there is something larger, something new(neo).
And while I do like most of yous enjoy this meta narrative that
shows Neo(one) to be Jesus or other higher figures of the past,
I think that the matrix is not about the underlying and the hidden
but about Neo as a saviour in our world where the one height
of philosphy the baudrillain view, and the Bohm holographic
universe, along with quantum science(what the bleep)
and all religions come together in the story of Neo(Man)
given a chance to be a God. Now while in the past man has relied
on organised religious doctrine to seek whats higher and find
supposed truth in mass of numbers e.g 1 billion catholics, the matrix
invites us to be individuals each with a personal doctrine be it one
of the past or the new(neo) way, the way of peace.

On the one hand we view the programs in the matrix as something
different from us but I think the matrix is telling us that we are
the programs.

[vieome]

Firstly sorry for the double post. I did not get much sleep last night I kept thinking about how to explain a little better this new religion which is not really a new religion per se. I think the captains question is great as it puts all the ideas we have put forward before in one thread thus showing the many reflections in one body.

So I am going to try and clarify what the matrix is telling my brain about religion.
All religions require us to follow in the footsteps of its God. christianity invites us to follow in the footsteps of Jesus etc etc.

The matrix invites us to follow in the footsteps of Neo ( who is all the other gods roled into one). Now we all have started the quest which has led us into the rabbit hole. In the rabbit hole we find the many questions like the one in this thread,
and those questions can lead us to the Jaberwaki or to more questions or we can
continue to follow the steps of Neo.

Red or blue pill
So the next step in pursuit of Neo or Neo nature we decide to stop asking questions(twenty questions) and take a symbolic pill which we get to see the matrix
for what it is, a world of interconnected minds in a subjective reality.

The Training Programs
Once we have seen the world with our own eyes(seeing is believing), we embark on
some training programs which teach us how to bend the rules of the matrix.

The Red Dress
This program teaches us that once we know the truth that the world is subjective then we are different from the others we are no longer agents of the system. It also shows us our previous nature where we dont pay attention to the larger plan but instead are
driven by items of the flesh. When it frozen you will notice the twins which I believe
shows our dual nature at that point, that we are either like the old Neo just a agent of the system or like the New neo free of the system.

Sparing
The sparing program teaches us more about the nature of the subjective world that every is all in our minds, and the way to use your mind is not think about things but just to know. It tells us if we have thus believe then anthings is possible.

Jump Program
As we continue in Neos steps the jump program teaches us that what keeps us trapped in the idea of an objective world matrix is our fears and doubts. Although it advises us to not jump off a building as you wont make your first jump.

The Oracle.
As we continue in Neos footstepps and learn this neo(new) way to see the world we reach the oracle and find a piece of gold for she tells us we are not alone that within us is our intuitions how guiding light. She alos introduces us to the nature of cause
and effect with the vase, but shows us that some times things are more the just a coincidence(synchronicty) and that things hapen without a cause or at least gives us
the ability to question the coincidence. In following the One we are told here to know ourselves. Yes that is a difficult one to know yourselve, who are you. Well she teaches us that in Knowing ourselves we have to know what we think. We have to know our thoughts and the only thing stopping us from being the One like Neo is what we think. " I am not the one "

I hope you can all see where I am going with this because I have to end now. But I will have with the words of Karl Jung. To follow exactly in the steps of Christ is to end up on the cross crucified. But the matrix tells that we Now live in a free world because of Neo and for us to have power in that free world all we have to do is have Neo nature.

s m i l e . . .

[tozy]

As we are all aware they are many reflections through out the matrix
of the many different religions. It is my personal opinion that the
driving question drives us not because it reflects religions of the
past but because there is something larger, something new(neo)
....

Great post!

given a chance to be a God

What is a God?

[vieome]

I had thought about that what is God. And I know there are many interprets for what a God is, but I guess in the post, it means to rise above ones human nature. That is our addictions, habits, the things which we are not in control of.


Edit: I wanted to add that in terms of the matrix and the subjective world the wachows are presenting it is all about controlling ones thoughts, thus we are addicted to certains thoughts and hence we create or construct a reality based on those thoughts. Now I have tried to do the Zen and Buddist thing even the christianity thing, and I found that in my world those things apply
but the concepts not the easiet to follow.

But the matrix and the idea of the subjective world, I went Tyler Durden with it. Many people see themselves as someone else but never follow through on it with their beleifs. From a scientific perspective I tested the matrix hypothesis and attempted to change my life by altering my thoughts, and I must say I had some results, but what was strange is that my life became filled with amazing coincidence.

I had written a primer on how I did it at matrix explained but of course
I know many people probably did not read it as in their minds I am some what of a creatin. I read your paper and I think it is great, however with all the old religious ideas the reason they are hard is because the keepers of the ideas what to maintain control over the followers. We see the catholics popes and that have many secrets. Making these religions like microsoft closed source. But the matrix is open source free for all and easier to understand the path of Neo. let me end this post before you all think I am crazy like Einstein.

[tozy]

I had thought about that what is God. And I know there are many interprets for what a God is, but I guess in the post, it means to rise above ones human nature. That is our addictions, habits, the things which we are not in control of.

As in Hinduism's Atman, Buddhism's Buddha nature, Gnosticism's divine spark etc etc?

I wanted to add that in terms of the matrix and the subjective world the wachows are presenting it is all about controlling ones thoughts, thus we are addicted to certains thoughts and hence we create or construct a reality based on those thoughts.

But why? What is new about that?

however with all the old religious ideas the reason they are hard is because the keepers of the ideas what to maintain control over the followers. We see the catholics popes and that have many secrets. Making these religions like microsoft closed source. But the matrix is open source free for all and easier to understand the path of Neo.

"A man climbed to the top of a mountain and, standing on tiptoe, seized hold of the Truth. Satan, suspecting mischief from this upstart, had directed one of his underlings to tail him; but when the demon reported with alarm the man's success - that he had seized hold of the truth - Satan was unperturbed. "Don't worry", he yawned. "I'll tempt him to institutionalize it."
Huston Smith - "The World's Religions"

The pope is not Christianity. He is the head of one Christian institution, originally elected as the leader in interpreting the Christian scriptures.

-> I think we have to differenciate between the original concept and an interpretation of this concept.

Over at MeX you asked me why we all try and explain the Matrix through the old theories and religions. Wasn't the Matrix bringing us a new (Neo) way of looking at the world?
It is my understanding that the Matrix does not give us something entirely new; the new imo is a new interpretation of the old wisdom. Or - to put it differently - a non-interpreting presentation of the old wisdom.

Just my two cent, of course...

[CaptPostMod]

"A man climbed to the top of a mountain and, standing on tiptoe, seized hold of the Truth. Satan, suspecting mischief from this upstart, had directed one of his underlings to tail him; but when the demon reported with alarm the man's success - that he had seized hold of the truth - Satan was unperturbed. "Don't worry", he yawned. "I'll tempt him to institutionalize it."
Huston Smith - "The World's Religions"

The Mormon initiation ritual used to dramatize a very similar parable (it's my understanding that this element of that section was removed during the revising of the ritual in the '90s).