The Matrix Fans 2007 forums

[CloudWolf]

Sounds like a pretty good theory for sure, especially him being a large part of the 'hell' (hence club hel?) version, that tying into his hatred of the oracle and his saving seraph from the failed heaven.

So I take it that it has been confirmed that Seraph is indeed a previous angelic agent?

Yup, on numerous occasions, even by Seraph himself once.

Although the wings thing has been confirmed as being taken after and for his betrayal of the merovingian in a couple of Seraph and Seraphim (original angelic agents) events but more recently here too.

http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300015832

Now that you mention it, I think I remember that coming up a long time ago. I haven't taken a look at the link you gave above (I can't view that website here at work; it's blocked), but does it mention what Seraph's character description says or used to say? Because I kind of remember that if you had encountered Seraph in-game during the first year or so of the game's story and read his character's description, it would say something to the effect of how or why he lost his wings. Memory's a bit rusty on that one, though.

Original LET descriptions for the characters pertinant to the discussion:

>Seraph<
Seraph was once a trusted lieutenant of the Merovingian, and possessed of certain powers which he has since lost. At some point in the past he betrayed the Merovingianan action for which the Frenchman still holds a grudge. He refers to Seraph as Judas, L ange sans ailes the angel without wings, and other unflattering epithets. Currently Seraph is the loyal friend of the Oracle, serving as her bodyguard, and protecting her young charges such as Sati. Seraph is one of the most feared and deadly combatants in the Matrix, able to hold his own even against Neo.

>The Oracle<
The Oracle survives, somehow, as a program living like a strange godling in the Matrix. Her willingness to be overwritten by Smith seems to have been part of a plan. Perhaps she left a trap door in Smith, allowing Neo to cancel him out in the battle in the rain. The two combatants were counterparts--both remainders from the equations that weave the fabric of the Matrix. But no definitive explanation is at hand. In the resetting of the Matrix, she is present again, an ally to Morpheus and other humans, hoping to keep the peace. But she knows peace is as evanescent as unsaved data in a power surge.

>Merovingian<
A trafficker in information, and one of the most powerful Exiles in the Matrix, renowned both for his exotic tastes and his ruthlessness.

>Persephone<
Merovingians wife. She is a program and an exile as well. Her sensual attractions may have been tied to her original function; bodies in the pods had to reproduce somehow, and perhaps she prompted certain necessary physiological events. She is preoccupied with love in all its dimensions. Small wonder the Merovingian had to possess her, even if he has a wide-ranging appetite.

The bit on Persephone's original purpose has been expanded on both through the Apothecary back story and the latest Merv crit, i'll work on getting them all screenshotted and posted in their own thread soon.

Oh and the above all came directly from a dev so they're confirmed.

[Feral_Boy]

>The Oracle<
The Oracle survives, somehow, as a program living like a strange godling in the Matrix. Her willingness to be overwritten by Smith seems to have been part of a plan. Perhaps she left a trap door in Smith, allowing Neo to cancel him out in the battle in the rain. The two combatants were counterparts--both remainders from the equations that weave the fabric of the Matrix. But no definitive explanation is at hand. In the resetting of the Matrix, she is present again, an ally to Morpheus and other humans, hoping to keep the peace. But she knows peace is as evanescent as unsaved data in a power surge.

Whoa! That was a mouthful! Okay, so let me deal with a few points here:

1) THE ORACLE LEFT A TRAP DOOR IN SMITH WHEN SHE ALLOWED HIM TO OVERWRITE HER
Very interesting! I wish the Matrix Explained forum had had access to this quote a couple years ago so we could have hashed that out. This goes right along with Smith/Oracle saying, "Everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo." So it would seem that not only did the Oracle make a way to give Neo that final hint as to what he needed to do, but also gave him the means by which he could do it. Awesome!

2) BOTH SMITH AND NEO WERE REMAINDERS FROM THE UNBALANCED EQUATION OF THE MATRIX
Smith did not start out as a remainder of the unbalanced equation of the Matrix (like the One). He was just an agent, like any other. But when Neo destroyed him in M1, the anomaly got overwritten onto Smith. The anomaly is the product of rebellion against the system, so therefore with this being added to Smith's programming, he now had the proper rebellious attitude to reject the system, when before he couldn't. And since Neo is the INTEGRAL anomaly--meaning that he is the sum total of ALL rejections of the Matrix--then with the new connection between Smith and Neo formed at the end of M1, the integral anomaly is also being dumped into Smith. As Neo grows in power, so does Smith.

3) THE ORACLE'S DESCRIPTION DOES NOT EXPLICITLY LIST HER AS AN EXILE
Has she EVER been?

>Persephone<
Merovingians wife. She is a program and an exile as well. Her sensual attractions may have been tied to her original function; bodies in the pods had to reproduce somehow, and perhaps she prompted certain necessary physiological events. She is preoccupied with love in all its dimensions. Small wonder the Merovingian had to possess her, even if he has a wide-ranging appetite.

"Certain necessary physiological events." HA!! Persephone is the all-time whore of the Matrix if that's true! I can just imagine the talk around the water cooler the next morning: "Man, I had this dream about this hot chick with black hair in a red dress that had a French accent!" "Wow, me too!" "Weird, me too! And she's got fat lips, dude!"

The bit on Persephone's original purpose has been expanded on both through the Apothecary back story and the latest Merv crit, i'll work on getting them all screenshotted and posted in their own thread soon.

Oh and the above all came directly from a dev so they're confirmed.

Awesome. Can't wait to see all the goodies!

[vieome]

Another Mero

Personally I feel that Mero was like Neo in that he was a one to the programs
helping them find freedom in the matrix. Remember Rama takes his daughter to the matrix, to find in a sense freedom from deletion. Mero and Perserphone I think were in love(just never heard a program speak of love) in the machine world and left to be together in the matrix. He is a program designed to gather information and uses the info to find his freedom in the matrix, unfortunatly he gets corrupted by power.

You will notice that Meros door at his restaurant is also 101. So Mero at first is there to help programs find freedom in the matrix. But what Mero discovers is that even when aware of the matrix he can have no freedom without power. So he goes after the power. And the power does what it always does corrupts. Soon he is no longer just helping free programs from the machine world but taking control of programs and even keeping programs imprisioned. Thus he in a sense establishes his own matrix within the matrix other wise know as hell.

I think what Mero helps establish is that there is no difference between human consciousness and programmed consciousness. In that just like humans are addicted to things so programs too get addiccted to things( Perserphone... just a kiss) Mero
and his women, Mero and power and more power.

[Feral_Boy]

I'm wondering if the Merovingian (or Persephone) were involved in the "heaven" version of the Matrix. If so, this would probably have been where he would have met Seraph. Perhaps he saw Seraph in action and knew that he was just too good to go to waste, so when the heavenly Matrix was scrapped in favor of the hellish one, the Merovingian made sure to save Seraph from the fate awaiting the other angelic agents.

By the way, what WAS the fate of the angelic agents? Obviously the Merovingian saved some of them, since they pop out of the remaining Pandora's Box. But did he save ALL of them?

[CloudWolf]

Pretty sure Persephone wouldnt've been around in the heaven since she had Dame White as her predecessor and heaven was Matrix 1.0

As for the angelic agents, not 100% on them yet, have yet to do PB4.

[CaptPostMod]

Pretty sure Persephone wouldnt've been around in the heaven since she had Dame White as her predecessor and heaven was Matrix 1.0

As for the angelic agents, not 100% on them yet, have yet to do PB4.

Who's Dame White?

[CloudWolf]

One of the city's many exiles.

[Feral_Boy]

Pretty sure Persephone wouldnt've been around in the heaven since she had Dame White as her predecessor and heaven was Matrix 1.0

As for the angelic agents, not 100% on them yet, have yet to do PB4.

Who's Dame White?

Capt, I'm at work at the moment, so I'm limited on which websites I can access to get you info on the identity of Dame White. Basically, when the developers of MxO divided up the city into sections, they set it up so that there was an Exile in charge of each section. The story (as I remember it, help me out here CloudWolf) is that there are two main Exiles--Mr. Black and Dame White--who are like crime lords over much of Mega City and are also "parents" of other Exiles. These "children" of Mr. Black and Dame White are the Exiles who rule over the different sections of Mega City.

As CloudWolf stated, it has been revealed that Dame White and Persephone are very similar programs, having similar purposes. And as CloudWolf stated, Dame White was Persephone's predecessor, which means that Persephone replaced her. I can't wait to hear what CloudWolf reveals as he continues his research for us. Keep going, CloudWolf!

[CaptPostMod]

Thanks, Feral Boy (and Cloudwolf). I hadn't heard of these characters.

... Mr. Black ...

What an excellent name!

[CloudWolf]

You're pretty much there Feral, Dame White and Mr. Black ARE 2 of the biggest names in the Exile underground but not nessecarily THE two who all others originate.

As far as exile contacts go theres two big 'families' (one in richland and one in westview if i remember correctly) then a tirade of others in between and for international and downtown.

The Spectrums are what you're thinking of with Dame White and Mr Black's 'children'.

The other family is called The Elements and has exiles like Argon, Mercury and Silver.

I havn't had a chance to do/document hardly any exiles but there is an extensive blog that reviews em periodically here:
http://mxo.mxostory.com/neighborhood2.html

They're actually all pretty interesting, for example, i can think of two in particular that i've come across. Hypatia is in charge of the neighbourhood that houses the downtown library (possibly the one from PoN, we cant be sure since the interiors closed off to players) but also one of the founders of the secrective Archivist's Society who horde all sorts of dark, powerful and long forgotton knowledge as well as host the historical constructs available in the game. Another is Sunshine who was involved of the conversion of solar energy before human's blotted out the sun.

Oh then theres Raini who was recently involved with the Merovingian's investigation of the legitimacy of The Matrix's power systems and was revealed as being a key factor in the Machine's old use of Fision power before they apparently moved to the mixture of the human body and a type of Fusion.

[Feral_Boy]

Hey CloudWolf, have you gotten anywhere in the Pandora's Box storyline yet? Just checkin'.

[CloudWolf]

Yup, got 1 2 and 3 done, just need to sort out the screenshots.

Sorry its taking so long, college has been coming down hard as of late.

[Feral_Boy]

Hey, not a problem. I'm just asking because I've been going over some old stuff from the old MeX forum where we were all trying to figure out the history of the Matrix. Some questions came up that I'm hoping the Pandora's Box storyline will answer:

1) How many versions of the Matrix were there before the Oracle came on board? Two (heaven and hell), or four (heaven, hell, feudal japan, and a modern pre-1999)? We know about at least four versions and that heaven and hell happened before the Oracle, but we don't know where the feudal Japan and pre-1999 (where there are SWAT guys for agents instead of the suits) versions fit in.

2) Do you know where there is a complete text of the old copy of the Sentinel that talks about Decius Wadsworth from the Piece of Blue Sky event? That thing is so loaded with hints as to the chronology of the history of the Matrix, that it's not even funny.

3) Was the Merovingian one of the programs who helped the Architect way back in the very beginning to create the early versions of the Matrix? The Decius Wadsworth story hints at this and makes it sound like he was very involved in creating the early versions of the Matrix.

Thanks man, and keep us posted!

[CloudWolf]

Hey, not a problem. I'm just asking because I've been going over some old stuff from the old MeX forum where we were all trying to figure out the history of the Matrix. Some questions came up that I'm hoping the Pandora's Box storyline will answer:

1) How many versions of the Matrix were there before the Oracle came on board? Two (heaven and hell), or four (heaven, hell, feudal japan, and a modern pre-1999)? We know about at least four versions and that heaven and hell happened before the Oracle, but we don't know where the feudal Japan and pre-1999 (where there are SWAT guys for agents instead of the suits) versions fit in.

While still a relatively open subject my personal theory based off everything i've seen so far would be

1. Heaven, then Hell (one in the same with the 'fairytale nightmare' matrix Ookami references being from as well as what the widows moor and ashencourte constructs being based off - a hellish post apocolytic urban/gothic landscape where human beings own imaginations and fantasys roam free and thrive off the weak, eventually failed due to the shear strength of their emotions and fear of the world), then Choice 1999. The japan/pre-1999 versions you seem to reference i assume are based off the constructs in the game? In that case i'd simply argue they don't nessicarily relate back to previous versions but are simply historical constructs (i mean, it isnt like mobil ave is based off a previous version) owned neutrally by the archivists society (who are known for their hoarding and preservation of knowledge).

As for the swat guys, they came in a previous one cycle considering how they reference modern day buildings and tactics as well as 'redpills' (remember Zion and the whole notion of human's outside the simulation was a bi-product of the choice version, meaning they must have existed in that one). Upgrades and changes to system forces can happen all that time, even between cycles (see: upgraded agents).

2) Do you know where there is a complete text of the old copy of the Sentinel that talks about Decius Wadsworth from the Piece of Blue Sky event? That thing is so loaded with hints as to the chronology of the history of the Matrix, that it's not even funny.

I'll see what i can russle up and post in the mxo section.

3) Was the Merovingian one of the programs who helped the Architect way back in the very beginning to create the early versions of the Matrix? The Decius Wadsworth story hints at this and makes it sound like he was very involved in creating the early versions of the Matrix.

Not sure, i think arc 4 (the one i havn't done yet) deals with the Merv, though i doubt any sort of confirmation on something that bigs handled there, there wouldve been a lot more discussion about it in the wadsworth theories if there had.

[Feral_Boy]

What you said about there only being two versions of the Matrix before the Oracle’s version makes sense, as well as matches what was revealed in the movies. Also, that part about the SWAT agents referring to redpills pretty much seals it.

So in regard to the SWAT agents, I wonder how many versions of the Matrix had SWAT agents and how many had “agent” agents (what’s a better name—“suit” agents?). This is somewhat important, because I’ve always believed that in the first Matrix movie, Agent Smith behaved as if he was unaware of the cycles (believing that the access codes to Zion were actually important and that he’d be free to leave the Matrix once he found them), yet beginning with Matrix Reloaded, he had full knowledge of the cycles and where Neo would be showing up (speaking to the Oracle, speaking to the Architect). This is information he did not appear to have in M1. Perhaps his defeat at the hands of Neo unlocked certain information in Smith about past cycles. Or maybe it’s as simple as that Smith simply took over an Exile with information about the cycles, thus giving Smith access to that information. If that’s the case, that would be an interesting bit of trivia, to know WHO Smith overwrote to gain that info. It would probably have been one of the Merovingian’s people, but somebody high up enough to not just know about the cycles (since ALL of the Merovingian’s people know about those), but also about where and when each step on the Path of the One is supposed to occur.

One nagging question that doesn’t really relate, but just now popped into my head. This is a question that was debated back and forth on the MeX forum, but no conclusion was ever reached that was to my full satisfaction. I’ll give you the assumptions that lead up to the question.

1) The Merovingian is a trafficker of information
2) He most likely knows the reason for the One’s existence
3) The One is necessary to reload the Matrix
4) If the One does not carry the integral anomaly to the Source to be eliminated, the Matrix will crash
5) The Merovingian’s empire is tied to the survival of the Matrix
6) It is in the Merovingian’s best interest to ensure that the Matrix continues to run smoothly

So you can probably see where I’m headed with this. If the Merovingian needs the Matrix to continue to exist without any major hiccups (save for the occasional necessary reload, for which he’s got the constructs to help him and his cronies survive), then WHY did he want Neo dead? If Neo dies, then he would not be able to carry the integral anomaly to the Source to be destroyed, thus bringing balance to the equation and preventing the Matrix from crashing. It does not appear from the movies that the Merovingian was trying to have Neo killed simply to keep up appearances. The only logical answer is that the Merovingian DIDN’T KNOW that Neo was necessary to keep the Matrix from crashing. But that goes against everything we know about the Merovingian—that he has been around for a long time, even before the Oracle’s version of the Matrix, and probably knows how the Oracle’s version of the Matrix functions, inside and out. Any comments?