The Matrix Fans 2007 forums

[tozy]

I think Persephone's...

"A long time ago, when we first came here, it was so different, he was so different; he was like you"

...is crucial to understanding the Merovingian. But what does Persephone mean to say by this?

Obviously, it is very much about love:
Persephone: You love her; she loves you; it's all over you both. A long time ago, I knew what that felt like.

But I believe there is something else:

A very important aspect of Neo is his search for the truth -> knowledge
(-> Neodämmerung: "From delusion lead me to truth" )

Now, does this ring a bell?

-> Merovingian: I am a trafficker of information, I know everything I can (...) It's my business to know.

Let's get back to what Smith, the exile, told Neo:
"We're not here because we're free, we're here because we're not free. There's no escaping reason, no denying purpose because as we both know, without purpose we would not exist.
Smith 2: It is purpose that created us.
(...)
Smith 7: It is purpose that defines."

Even as exiles, programs cannot escape the purpose they have initially been created for. This suggests (to me anyway... ), that Merv, whose "business" is to know, initially has been programmed to know,... or to gain knowledge. According to the Oracle, he is a very old program,... "one of the oldest of us". So I gather he has been created as one of the first programs to try to understand mankind -> the world (just as the Oracle has been "initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche...")
His lecture about causality, why and power/control might even give us a hint as to what kind of research he was to do.

So,... striving for knowledge/truth is another aspect, the "old" Merv and Neo share.
And both did/do it for the good of their race.

But why did Merv and Neo become so entirely different?

Knowledge is power. But power has a great potential of corrupting people.
The answer to why Merv got corrupted by his power, and Neo was free from being corrupted, lies in the quality of their knowledge.
And this gets us back to the Oracle, Neo's guide:

To understand the following, I guess you should know that I understand the Matrix universe (incl. Zion and 01) as a map of the full range of human consciousness -> conscious and subconscious, including the spiritual realm:

I believe the Oracle represents intuitive knowledge; she guides Neo towards "know thyself" -> she directs him inward, towards a knowledge of his own true nature.
The Merovingian, however, who represents the intellect (as in acquired knowledge) and obviously lacks the ability to see with the intuitive eye (-> "give me the eyes of the Oracle"), must seek knowledge on different - outer - levels of reality.
(This difference is also being expressed by their appearance and surroundings: pompous decadence in Merv's case, as opposed to the humble appearance of the Oracle -> appearance vs. essence.)

Neo is called the One. With the Neodämmerung lyrics, the brothers give us a hint as to where he is headed in his search for the truth:

"In him are woven the sky and the earth and all the regions of the air, and in him rest the mind and all the powers of life. Know him as the ONE and leave aside all other words. He is the bridge of immortality." (Neodämmerung/Mundaka Upanisad)

The ONE in the above text is Hinduism's Brahman, the origin and underlying spirit reality of our manifest world, thus also the underlying reality of man.
-> "know thyself" is to know Brahman/The One -> to know The One is to be The One -> one with All.
Our manifest existence as an induvidual is not our ultimate reality and thus victim to an illusory perception.

Neo gradually approaches his original face, transcending the illusion. Merv more and more estranges from it (-> Persephone: "...he was different") and is caught up in the illusion (it is no coincidence that the false reality Matrix becomes his "downfall" (Persephone: "When we first came here (...) he was different") and his realm of power).

Thus,... Neo's strength lies in a growing control over himself (-> "there is no spoon") due to his growing "know thyself", whereas Merv's power inside the Matrix is grounded in his control over others, due to his huge "worldly" knowledge.

Self-control in the above mentioned concept of The ONE equals selflessness. Whereas control over others is an expression of selfishness:

I guess it is safe to say that all that matters Merv is... himself.

[tozy]

According to the above mentioned concept of The One, there is an essential striving in this world, back towards The One:

… development is evolution; evolution is transcendence…; and transcendence has as its final goal Atman, or ultimate Unity Consciousness in only God. All drives are a subset of that Drive, all wants a subset of that Want, all pushes a subset of that Pull – and that whole movement is what we call the Atman-project: the drive of God towards God, Buddha towards Buddha, Brahman towards Brahman, but carried out initially through the intermediary of the human psyche, with results that range from ecstatic to catastrophic.
(Ken Wilber "The Atman project")

...but carried out initially through the intermediary of the human psyche, with results that range from ecstatic to catastrophic!

The striving towards the One - according to the concept of the One essential to us - is expressed in Neo's and Merv's striving for (the power of) knowledge/the truth.
But,.... while Neo transcends the Matrix and eventually reaches the light in 01,... Merv, who has become corrupted by the worldly power inside the Matrix, gets stuck there.

And in this context, the many hints towards Merv as Satan or Hades, make sense to me:
Merv's realm of selfish worldly power, stuck inside the false reality of the Matrix, is the underworld - a dead end - for the selfless striving towards The One, most clearely expressed in this image:

-> Merv, originally created to gain knowledge for his race, had started as "Help" and he ends as the boss of "Hel" (-> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_%28realm%29)

[CaptPostMod]

Awesome posts

[CloudWolf]

MxO storyline writer Mr. Paul Chadwick has ran two MxO blogs to compliment the official story (both of which seem discontinued now but hey), one was written the perspective of a member of E Pluribus Neo and the other from one of The General's soldiers.

Whats interesting and relevant is that in the EPN blog it states "There's no reason a sun-controlling program should look like a little girl. Or an operating system seem to be a sybaritic French gangster."

http://mxo.blogs.com/cryptos/2006/07/theories_of_the.html

Now remembering Chadwick is close to the Bros and was put in charge of the Matrix's continuing story, its entirely plausible he was given some more background story to work with.

Thought you'd all apprechiate the info is all.

[CaptPostMod]

If Merv is the OS, that certainly puts a lot of stuff in perspective! That's a huge piece of the Matrix puzzle solved if correct.

[tozy]

Thought you'd all apprechiate the info is all.

Certainly, though...

If Merv is the OS, that certainly puts a lot of stuff in perspective! That's a huge piece of the Matrix puzzle solved if correct.

Errr,... could you expand on this?


CloudWolf,
you mentioning MxO reminds me of something Feral Boy told us some time ago:
http://www.matrix-explained.com/php/post-73213.html&highlight=merovingian#73213
Was there any confirmation, further develpoment or else?

[CaptPostMod]

If Merv is the OS, that certainly puts a lot of stuff in perspective! That's a huge piece of the Matrix puzzle solved if correct.

Errr,... could you expand on this?

Sure. If Merv is an OS program, that suggests the Matrix itself is not an OS, and that the Source is not an OS. The OS is apparently a program with a personality like Merv, not a disembodied presence. This clarifies or ignites some issues discussed on max's thread over at MEx.

If Merv is a former OS, then that means the current OS would probably be a physical presence as well. Like the Oracle, for instance. Which would help explain the Oracle's role, and maybe Sati's future role as well.

[CloudWolf]

Ah the big Wadsworth conspiracy theory. A popular one back in the day.

Though no, i don't think any of it was officially responded to, sorry.

As for the Merv being a former/current/whatever OS one of Agent Pace's most recent comments comes to mind "He has a certain place which he is allowed within the system... nothing more"

Suggesting his existance in the Matrix is tolerated by the Machines for a reason, much like the Oracle.

His being an OS would also facilitate/explain his inherent need for power and control over information flows and other programs.

[CaptPostMod]

His being an OS would also facilitate/explain his inherent need for power and control over information flows and other programs.

And his ability to maintain other programs from previous generations across "reboots."

[CloudWolf]

Confirmed in a recent live event:

http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300014962

[th3_p4th]

Nice, thanks once again

[CloudWolf]

His being an OS would also facilitate/explain his inherent need for power and control over information flows and other programs.

And his ability to maintain other programs from previous generations across "reboots."

Well thats actually explained in MxO (somewhere along the line, i think it was chapter 4 when zion was trying to take on his organisation through key areas) as him having access to numerous constructs seperate from the main simulation (pocket worlds) where he and his minions simply run away to in times of reset or desperation.

[Feral_Boy]

Here is how I understand the Merovingian, after piecing things together here and there.

The Merovingian used to be an operating system, hence his proclivity for gathering information. He is like a giant organizer. I believe he was probably created BEFORE the Matrix was created. First the Architect creates the "heaven" version of the Matrix, which fails. He then creates the "hell" version and puts the Merovingian in charge. The Merovingian was a different person back then, and brought his love Persephone with him. His task was to play the role of Hades and he was given complete control over the entire Matrix.

As a gesture of kindness, the Merovingian rescues Seraph, who was an angelic agent about to be destroyed after the dismal failure of the "heaven" Matrix. Seraph accepted, and to fit in with his new role as a satanic protector rather than a heavenly one, the price for being saved by the Merovingian was that his wings had to be cut off. I suspect that the Merovingian and Seraph had a mutual respect for one another and worked together just fine.

Over time, the power that the Merovingian wielded began to change him. Power corrrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Soon he was no longer pretending to be Hades, but he BECAME Hades in every aspect. He stopped being the man that Persephone had fallen in love with, but by then it was too late and she was trapped in the Matrix with him.

All was well for the Merovingian, until the "hell" version of the Matrix soon proved to be just as disastrous as the previous version. In steps the Oracle, and along with the Architect she creates a version of the Matrix that no longer requires a Hades figure. It is more like the real world, and in the real world there IS no Hades. The Oracle becomes "that which is most important" and therefore attracts the attention of Seraph, whose function has always been as a protector. Seraph leaves the Merovingian and begins protecting the Oracle instead. This is the beginning of the Merovingian's hatred for the Oracle. First of all he hates her for nearly making him obsolete. Secondly he is jealous of her for coming up with a solution that he couldn't. Thirdly he is irate that she took his best employee away from him.

But before he is sent back to the Source, the Merovingian takes steps to protect himself and his empire. He has the Trainman create a connection between the Matrix and the Machine City. Then he has pocket worlds created to which he and his minions can escape so that the changing of the programming of the Matrix will not destroy them. Although looked upon first as a threat, he is soon seen to have a somewhat useful function in the new version of the Matrix. Although some would say it is to be a collector of Exiles, I'm thinking it's something different than that. If all the Merovingian is to the Machines is a mafia-type leader who gathers dangerous Exiles to himself, I would view him as a threat to the system, not a help. So I have to believe for the moment that there is more than meets the eye when it comes to the Merovingian.

CloudWolf, has any of my theorizing been verified in the game?

[CloudWolf]

Sounds like a pretty good theory for sure, especially him being a large part of the 'hell' (hence club hel?) version, that tying into his hatred of the oracle and his saving seraph from the failed heaven.

Although the wings thing has been confirmed as being taken after and for his betrayal of the merovingian in a couple of Seraph and Seraphim (original angelic agents) events but more recently here too.

http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300015832

I also agree with your 'more to him' theory. As i mentioned above Agent Pace is already been quoted on 'he has a certain place in the system' but not only that the System has shown several examples of their overwhelming ability to take down, or at least neutralise, threats to the system (see The General and now Zion) - but when it comes to the merv they always seem to hold back, see when hes getting a bit big for his boots then cut him back down to size, but never destroy.

Plus he does always seem a bit overconfident when taking initiatives against the machines, despite his obvious attitude i still think its a little bit more than simple arrogance.

[Feral_Boy]

Sounds like a pretty good theory for sure, especially him being a large part of the 'hell' (hence club hel?) version, that tying into his hatred of the oracle and his saving seraph from the failed heaven.

So I take it that it has been confirmed that Seraph is indeed a previous angelic agent?

Although the wings thing has been confirmed as being taken after and for his betrayal of the merovingian in a couple of Seraph and Seraphim (original angelic agents) events but more recently here too.

http://forums.station.sony.com/mxo/posts/list.m?topic_id=36300015832

Now that you mention it, I think I remember that coming up a long time ago. I haven't taken a look at the link you gave above (I can't view that website here at work; it's blocked), but does it mention what Seraph's character description says or used to say? Because I kind of remember that if you had encountered Seraph in-game during the first year or so of the game's story and read his character's description, it would say something to the effect of how or why he lost his wings. Memory's a bit rusty on that one, though.

I also agree with your 'more to him' theory. As i mentioned above Agent Pace is already been quoted on 'he has a certain place in the system' but not only that the System has shown several examples of their overwhelming ability to take down, or at least neutralise, threats to the system (see The General and now Zion) - but when it comes to the merv they always seem to hold back, see when hes getting a bit big for his boots then cut him back down to size, but never destroy.

Plus he does always seem a bit overconfident when taking initiatives against the machines, despite his obvious attitude i still think its a little bit more than simple arrogance.

Exactly! They could TOTALLY destroy him if they wanted to. One of the things that got me so excited about the whole Piece of Blue Sky storyline is that it was "revealed" that Wadsworth (read: Merovingian) had his chateau built for him by an "architect". To me, this was as clear as it could be that the Merovingian was GIVEN a place in the Matrix and has a distinct purpose.

I remember one of the longest debates we had on the forums was about the reason why the Merovingian would try to kill Neo. The thinking goes like this: the Merovingian is a trafficker of information. Because of that, he probably knows by now exactly what the purpose of the One is, which is to ensure the stability of the Matrix so that it doesn't crash. The Merovingian's empire is dependant upon the Matrix surviving. So if the One is necessary to ensure the stability of the Matrix, and the Matrix is where the Merovingian's empire is, why would the Merovingian do anything that might endanger his own empire? Why would he kidnap the Keymaker, thereby making it harder for Neo to reach the Architect, which he would need to do in order to make sure the Matrix doesn't crash? It just doesn't make sense. It's like the Merovingian either has a death wish or simply loves to play games to keep himself entertained--even if those games might get him killed. If that's the case, he would be like an adrenalin junkie or something.