The Matrix Fans 2007 forums

[iLuvU2]

Yeah, the way that Smith came back after his apparent demise sorta has the feeling of an afterthought because the writers wanted the same foe for the hero.

Nah. I think Smith's returned was always intended. It just would have likely been in the first movie.

The Animatrix short Final Flight of the Osiris could definitely have been a clifflhanger for the first movie and pointed to events in the second movie.

I think so, too.

ILuvU2, do you think that the trilogy would have been strengthened or weakened if the trilogy encompassed only one large monomyth (with the first movie simply being a part of the whole rather than being self-contained) instead of the way they ended up doing it?

Hmmm. Depends on perspective. I definitely don't think there would have been as much hate for the sequels if they had done it that way with the cliffhanger you mentioned. But the way the Wachowskis ended up doing it was a good fix as well and I guess they're happy with it or they probably would have made an alternate ending on somebody's DVD.

[Feral_Boy]

Sorta related to this subject, I was watching the first Matrix movie on AMC a couple nights ago. While watching, I was thinking about this thread and looking for signs of possible changes that might have been made to the story in the writers' minds in order to keep it self-contained and not refer to characters and events that they wouldn't be able to introduce until the second and third movies.

I didn't watch very much of it, but when I got to the scene where Neo goes with Choi and DuJour to the dance club, I saw something very interesting. The first shot of the club is focused on Choi and DuJour, and they're sitting down speaking to people who are standing around them. The shot didn't last very long, but all of a sudden it reminded me very strongly of the scene in M3 where the Merovingian and Persephone are sitting in chairs in Club Hel with people standing all around them. If the writers had been able to write the entire trilogy all at once, I wonder if Club Hel would have been the place where Neo first meets Trinity. None of the Zion rebels knew who the Merovingian was at that point, so it's not like they'd be knowingly going into enemy territory.

I should watch the rest of the movie again and see what other things like that I can find.

[vieome]

So Intel you promised us that this would get interesting that it was going to be proper and that. But no progress made.

I think there is a valuable lesson to be learnt, that in doing something of this magnitude that we should all agree first.
Instead you decided that it was all about cambell and then you and your alllies proceeded to knock everyone off the
idea of the ultimate guide. And now it appears we are no where.

So lets assume we have the cambell issue out the way! What can we do, perhaps all together this time to advance the guide?

[iLuvU2]

1. The Campbell issue is not out the way.

There are a few questions left open that are yet to be considered before we proceed. You remember what they are, don't you? Out of the way? No, sorry. We really haven't even begun, yet.

2. Since you feel it is not important, you kept on trucking and made your own examinations and you didn't seek agreement to do so, either, from my memory. So what was the "lesson to be learnt" there? Still, you didn't see one of us posting over there against what you were doing, did you?

I've been kinda busy myself, and others, including Dionysus, seem to be similarly occupied, so I don't know where this is going to go, yet. I'm not TOO concerned about that as I am getting deeper into the subject matter related to the movies and I feel I'm kinda outgrowing stuff like this. If it picks up, though. I'll read and most likely join in.

[vieome]

temet nosce
you right you always right

[iLuvU2]

http://www.greenmanreview.com/film/film_matrix.html

Enjoy.
(Or read it and weep, depending on your perspective, of course)

[iLuvU2]

post1309.html#p1309

[CaptPostMod]

Enjoy.
(Or read it and weep, depending on your perspective, of course)

Thanks! I enjoyed that

[psikeyhackr]

It's looking kind of dead around here. The 10th anniversary is a week away.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDM3EX65qjE

Worthless sound track though.

I have never thought about the 10 anniversary of a movie before.

I just had a 10th anniversary for this:

http://www.spectacle.org/1199/wargame.html

I first posted that in Feb 1999. It is a kind of intellectual Red Pill for economics.

Maybe I brought the economy down.

Happy 10th Matrix Anniversary. Maybe I'll remember to stop by on the 31st.

psik

[iLuvU2]

If they had listened to you in '99, Psyckey, things would have been different , I think.

Hopefully, people will listen to this and stop expecting the economy to sustain itself in ways that defy all known laws of mathematics. ;)

Ah, yes, '99. Kinda nostalgic. How optimistic we all were back then!

[th3_p4th]

Happy 10th anniversary guys!!!

[psikeyhackr]

Happy 10th anniversary guys!!!

Neo, "Ditto!"

"I wish I knew what I was supposed to do," Neo says.

psik

[CaptPostMod]

The economy tanking is just a trick of the media to get us to buy things and stop changing jobs every 2.5 years.

[dionysus]

Hi Guys,

It's been a while, I agree. My apologies to those who have been following this thread only to see it crash-land before it really even took off. Over the past few months I've been working on the contents of what is to become an entirely new website devoted to the Matrix Trilogy. With some luck and permission, this site could also come to serve as an alternative Ultimate Matrix Guide for fans like you and me. What I aim to do with the website is to describe the trilogy (so that's all three films viewed as one story) in ten different chapters from 10 different perspectives. So each chapter will represent 1 way of looking at the films.

So, although I'll start out with the Campbell model similar to the one we have discussed here, I'll eventually move into a Nietzschean way of looking at the films, followed by a Platonic and Baudrillardian interpretation of the films. These chapters will then be followed by a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, and Taostic interpretation of the films. I plan to finish off with a chapter tying all the different symbolic elements together from the preceding chapters to form an entirely new (hidden) story. One story will be the occidental hero story, the other the oriental hero story.

Another way of describing it could be in the words of Larry Wachowski himself (during an interview with Ken Wilbur on naked radio -or something like late), I plan to move from an external interpretation of the films to an internal interpretation. Very much like the idea behind the two sets of commentary tracks on the ultimate 10 disc edition, each individual chapter serves as a different 'commentary track' to the films.

It's true that I started posting on this site with the Campbell model in mind because I believe it was, and still is, the best way to start building an Ultimate Matrix Guide. It would not only gear our focus towards the story being told in the trilogy, it would simultaneously allow us to discuss the deeper symbolic references because that is exactly what Campbell does in his approach of his Hero with a Thousand Faces Model. The model allows us to break up the story into bite-sized chunks which allows us, in turn, to tackle of the story -in all its richness and complexity- in terms of what it says about neo's journey.

Neo's journey is the story of the hero with a thousand faces who who defeats his enemy and brings peace and feedom to the world. It is also the story of the hero with a thousand facers who overcomes the three principal evils of Buddhism and Hinduism and who achieves enlightenment as a result of it. These two Hero stories are told side-by-side and simultaneously and this is what makes the Matrix Trilogy so unique.

Happy 10th Anniversary!! -by the way

I saw something on Rotten Tomatoes . com that made me laugh and I think you guys'll enjoy -It had a feature showing all kinds of movies that had been influenced by the original Matrox film back in '99. Some of the picks are really good, others are rubbish though.... I must warn ya

So, what do you say we give this Ultimate Matrix Guide thread a kick in the butt and spark it back up into action? I'm all for more ideas or for pickin it up where we left off -If that's even up to me... I don't mean to sound intrusive, arrogant, cocky, or anything like that -largely because well, I'm not. (or at least, I try not to be in my everyday life) I'm just thrilled about all the little and larger hidden symbols that I've discovered in the Matrix Trilogy ever since I started writing for my website, and I'm looking forward to sharing them with you -I mean, if you're interested. I don't want to impose or anything like that, It's just that I know I'd be glad to receive some feed-back on what I have so far.

It's good to see that there are more sleeping Matrix Fans that have woken up now that the 10th Anniversay's here.

Greetinz,

Dionysus

[iLuvU2]

I say, sure it's been long enough. Might as well complete it.

I for one, will definitely read it, especially chapter 10. If it is half of what you say, it is a must read and one for the archives.